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TrDo

A Great Pitty for Lavasoft Support...

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Hello everyone,

 

I have been following this forum for a while now. I wanted to try Ad-Aware software Anniversary Ed, as an added layer of security on my pc. I already run a couple of other AV+Am solutions on it.

 

I am amazed to read how many people after using Ad-Aware, got their PC Hosed. The experts here had no real solution to offer, except what anyone else would say, like for example: use the manufacturer's cd, boot into safe mode, etc. I don't believe this is an expert responsible opinion, especially in the light of how many users suffering and not been able to use their pc.

 

Obviously this is not a first time it happens, and Lavasoft should have come up with a solution. Imagine trying to remove a virus with your anti-malware/adware app and getting your pc hosed. How irresponsible is that on Lavasoft's behalf? People are coming here because you have deprived them of the ability and the right for a decent free technical service support, because they use the free product Ad-Aware. Fine.

 

Does that mean that you have to destroy their pc's too? No. So, you either come up with a solution, or stop giving away a free product that can cause damage. And on top of that, providing "expert"opinions that anyone who's not an expert can give.

 

I will not be downloading the product, even to try. My pc and anyone's pc is a "tool" these days and a "valuable friend" to be left to rather good intentions but irresponsible and non-existant support by Lavasoft.

 

And before you give me some "high techie" geeky answers like: if you don't like it don't try it, please think about all of these people who have tried it and you cannot provide them with a solution, and while you sleep quietly...some people are trying to get their pc back to their feet again... And no, I'm not supporting any competitor products. I'm just somone who's trying to get some extra security on his pc.

 

I'm sorry to see such a good company coming to this rather disoriented and disorganised life-stage. I believe the least you can do to boost your sales and consumer confidence back to the right track, is to provide Free Technical Support.

 

Thank you for giving the chance to put another view into discussion. I hope that you will not remove the post, so users and experts can place their views.

 

TrDo.

 

 

P.S. Wll done KayleeSwift for coming up with a solution...for getting your hosed pc back into action!

http://www.lavasoftsupport.com/index.php?s...mp;#entry105229

Edited by TrDo

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Does that mean that you have to destroy their pc's too? No. So, you either come up with a solution, or stop giving away a free product that can cause damage. And on top of that, providing "expert"opinions that anyone who's not an expert can give . . . I believe the least you can do to boost your sales and consumer confidence back to the right track, is to provide Free Technical Support.

Paid users get professional Lavasoft support, free users get help from volunteers in this forum. A business model is not sustainable if you give away a free product but pay for support staff.

 

I will not be downloading the product, even to try. My pc and anyone's pc is a "tool" these days and a "valuable friend" to be left to rather good intentions but irresponsible and non-existant support by Lavasoft.

And more PC users should be like you before installing apps. Freeware has always been caveat emptor - don't download or install anything without knowing what risk your taking. Heck, this is why so many people get hit by malware in the first place.

 

Lavasoft the business (i.e. paid licenses) needs to be addressed separately from their freeware, and I think you overlook the credit due to the volunteers here who give their personal time free of charge to help solve problems. Compared to some, I think this is a very well-run forum. Many posters at public forums ridicule and disrespect anybody who is obviously a tech-challenged newbie. I have not seen that here.

 

first off I would like to say thank you I was so happy that my computer is back to normal.

 

secondly I have to congratulate you on your responsiveness and your willing to help people out free of charge I have had a topic open since this topic was open on bleepingcomputer.com with not a response yet.

 

once again thanks for your help and those who contribute to this board.

Edited by visitor

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use the manufacturer's cd, boot into safe mode, etc. I don't believe this is an expert responsible opinion, especially in the light of how many users suffering and not been able to use their pc.

 

So what would you like us to do? Magically produce the files from thin air, send them over the internet using our raw brain power before remotely installing them using nothing but a scientific calculator? Seriously, do you have any idea how hard it can be to try and diagnose a fault with a system with no direct access to that system, let alone one that's thousands of miles away with often a day between me posting and them responding? Especially when the person on the other end does not necessarily have a lot of computer knowledge.

 

Obviously this is not a first time it happens, and Lavasoft should have come up with a solution. Imagine trying to remove a virus with your anti-malware/adware app and getting your pc hosed. How irresponsible is that on Lavasoft's behalf?

 

These problems represent a tiny fraction of Lavasoft's total install base - I'm sure you understand how hard it can be for Lavasoft to reproduce these errors. And if they can't reproduce them, they can't fix them. I'm sure you also appreciate that the people that don't experience a problem don't generaly tend to feel the need to post to the forums.

 

People are coming here because you have deprived them of the ability and the right for a decent free technical service support, because they use the free product Ad-Aware. Fine.

 

You've not paid for anything, you're not owed anything. If you don't like it, don't use it. Your loss.

 

Does that mean that you have to destroy their pc's too? No. So, you either come up with a solution, or stop giving away a free product that can cause damage. And on top of that, providing "expert"opinions that anyone who's not an expert can give.

 

See above. These problems represent a tiny fraction of the total install base. And the fact is that if certain system files have been hosed the only way to restore them (easily) is from the Windows disc.

 

I will not be downloading the product, even to try. My pc and anyone's pc is a "tool" these days and a "valuable friend" to be left to rather good intentions but irresponsible and non-existant support by Lavasoft.

 

You've not paid for anything, you're not owed anything. Don't like it? Don't use it. That and support is not non-existant - http://www.lavasoft.com/support/supportcenter/

 

And before you give me some "high techie" geeky answers like: if you don't like it don't try it,

 

How, exactly, is that "High-tech" or "geeky"? Seems like fairly plain English to me.

 

please think about all of these people who have tried it and you cannot provide them with a solution, and while you sleep quietly...some people are trying to get their pc back to their feet again...

 

Are you suggesting that we shouldn't sleep? :s

 

P.S. Wll done KayleeSwift for coming up with a solution...for getting your hosed pc back into action!

http://www.lavasoftsupport.com/index.php?s...mp;#entry105229

 

Two questions - would a Windows PE, such as BartPE not be more suitable in this scenario? and second, what happened to "kis" - "keep it simple" - I generally don't recomend linux live discs on this forum for a variety of reasons - mainly related to simplicity. The number of knarcked computers where I've used a linux live disc to recover data before reisntalling Windows and you know what? on almost all of them I've had to force mount the hard drive. Try explaining exactly what that means to the average user on this forum. That's once they've got the disc - are they going to wait months for Ubuntu to deliver or are you going to ask them to download an iso - a lot of people here wouldn't know how to use and iso. and the list goes on and on.

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Hi Visitor and GoddersUK,

 

First of all allow me to thank you for your reply. I do understand and value your good intentions and the free support (out of your free time) that you offer AdAware users here. My point was that for someone (a volunteer, as in your case) to troubleshoot and support users, at an acceptable level, would have to have decent support from the parent company. I believe this is missing in this particular case. Not only due to the lack of their presence, but also due to their lack of their ability to complement you in difficult cases, like a hosed pc.

 

Further, it looks like this (hosed pc) has happened in more than one occasion (during removal), and this "more than once occuring heavy incident" would classify this problem category as a serious on-going problem, that Lavasoft should consider looking into. I don't know what has been causing this. Maybe False positives. Thus, if someone tries to remove them, maybe he accidentally drains a system file/reg key.

 

This has to be looked into. Not by you. You can only draw attention to it, to the people responsible. I understand this.

 

Now, the "sleeping part" (in my original post) was directly related to the Lavasoft staff, and not to you. And please don't joke about it. Because you have to remember that if it was your pc, you wouldn't joke about it.

 

I still believe that, these kind of low and "never-mind attitude" customer support levels are putting the average user (like me) off from trying the product it self. And without getting into management and business models, I also believe that Lavasoft could come-up with a viable solution to support users with hosed pcs', most importantly when happend during virus removal with their software.

 

But hey, this is my opinion.

 

Thank you, and please do not take this personally. I'm sure you see where am getting.

 

TrDo.

Edited by TrDo

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Hi TrDo,

 

But hey, this is my opinion.

Thank you, and please do not take this personally. I'm sure you see where am getting.

Sure do - I have had serious problems (system crash, blue screen, you name it) with McAfee, Norton, WMP, Quicktime, and a whole host of other "reputable" programs over the last decade - none of whose forums provided the level of support to be found here.

 

That said, in the 9 years that I have been a regd user of Ad-Aware, neither I nor any of the relatives or friends that I have persuaded onto the bandwagon, have had any issues with AAW that have not been resolved either through Regd Support, or for Free users, through this forum.

 

That is not to say that particular problems have not arisen over the years, all of which have been resolved with a little patience.

 

A number of "professional" products have bucked that trend - McAfee is notorious here in the forum, for requiring existing anti-malware or firewall products be removed (including ALL registry traces) before it's paid products will install. This has been an obvious attempt to remove competition, as Lavasoft, Norton and ZoneAlarm products have all been targeted by this approach.

 

Contact McAfee Support, and all you will be told is that the "offending" product must be completely removed for their product to install/work as advertised.... you won't find LS/AAW resorting to these tactics. Two years ago, McAfee was forced into releasing a "patch" that would allow competing products to work properly, due to unprecedented consumer protest... As an LS volunteer, I have been dealing with this exact problem for nearly 3 years !! Even now, we still have to assist AAW users to remove every last trace (including registry entries) of AAW, before McAfee will install - after that, AAW maybe installed and both programs will co-exist happily.

 

As malware evolves and products such as AAW evolve faster to keep ahead, particular problems do surface from time to time - no matter how well each update/release is tested, it cannot replicate every permutation of system configuration out there in the real world. Finding answers to individual users' issues will always take up a very significant portion of the Dev's time.

 

That said, Ad-Aware was the original standard-bearer in the anti-malware world 10 years ago, and is still the leading light in the battle in the anti-malware fight. No matter how advanced Lavasoft's products become, they have committed to always having a "free" version.

 

Spike

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Hi spike-nz,

 

I could always trade some product functionality and errors (well, we can discuss the critical ones), for a really decent product and troubleshooting support. Since I see that you expressed your opinion openly to me, I will do so also.

 

My main AV engine is NIS09. With all its resource drawbacks and its good points also. I'm quite happy about it. But what can I say about their support. Terrible. Less than zero. They also charge you for it (removal only). Further: in some cases it has been reported that their remote support (I can provide the links if you want), tried to remove (small) competitors products (like the very decent WinPatrol, which I also use by the way), when Norton users called in for a supported session. Even, if you visit the Spybot S&D site, you will see complaints from the extremely decent developers of S&D, about Symantec and their course of action about free products and competition in general.

 

Do I like Symantec? No. I think that they behave arrogantly, and at the same time their support not only has fallen below zero, but they have also moved their support to India (have nothing with Indians what so ever), and it's evident from what users say that the personel there are not technically competent at all.

 

There is a "but" coming now. BUT, knowing their defficiencies what Symantec did was to develop a GREAT users forum, with experts,...etc, and what else? EXTEREMELY ACTIVE participation, substantial not theoretical, from "actual" Symantec staff. You can go there with a mountain of issues, and leave the forum a happy bunny. The information flow is incredibly accurate and fast, both ways, and things are getting done. I mean, its rocking. People do not use one click free support; instead they come in the forum.

 

This is not my impression in here. And of course you are right. High expectations are for high end products. I would therefore expect Lavasoft staff to rock with their presence in the forums. Not to rock with their absence and the "never-mind" attitude.

 

We would not be having this conversation if we were taking about a small time product and a small time company.

 

Thanks.

 

TrDo.

Edited by TrDo

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Hi TrDo,

 

I saw you in the thread after posting my reply, so I anticipated your response. Yes, free speech and debate is to be encouraged (although profane or mindless posts may be "hidden"). This is a "free" users community and without regular debate and input, it would die a not-so-slow death...

 

EXTEREMELY ACTIVE participation, substantial not theoretical, from "actual" Symantec staff
.

A feature of this forum which is not immediately apparent to the average user is that there are sections only visible to "accredited" volunteers. It is in these areas that we direct the attention of the appropriate LS staff to particular problems as they arise (Devs, Regd Support, PR, etc), in order to save them time in having to trawl through all of the posts.

 

The positive element is that any newly-arisen problems are immediately reported to the correct section of LS staff, who may then work on the issues raised without having to take time to post individual replies.

 

The drawback is that many users may feel that issues are not being immediately addressed by posters without "LS" in front of their names - that said, LS staff do post in a number of sub-sections regularly.

 

However you may view this system, it works for us - we have regular, in-depth and on-going debates about the manner in which individual issues are being handled, all of which is monitored by LS staff. Some of it is very frank and open, and spills over into individual public threads - again, free speech in action. Just because we all volunteer our time to this forum does not mean that we all agree on the manner in which a particular issue is being prioritised, etc.

 

Personally, I would rather have volunteers in every time-zone directing paid staff to important issues as they arise, rather than have paid staff trawling through every post/thread looking for work to do.

 

FYI - we have an extremely experienced, long-standing Symantec/Norton forum volunteer working both fora, reporting on any issues which may affect both products.

 

Back to you,

 

regards,

 

Spike

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Nice..I didn't see the Symantec volunteer...I will most probably recognize him, if I notice him...I also see my friend Mieke from the MBAM Team forum is posting here..

 

All the best spike-nz.

 

Thanks for the discussion.

 

TrDo.

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You're welcome, TrDo.

 

Always happy to engage in a sensible discussion.

 

Regards,

 

Spike

 

PS: Mieke is one of our star volunteers - wish that I had one tenth of her knowledge.

 

PPS: I'm sure that you will recognise our Symantec volunteer, if/when she makes her next post.

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Hi:

 

I really enjoyed reading these postings all of which were written in a friendly vain. I feel that TrDo injected some items of concern about Lavasoft that so many of us currently agree with or feel. They seem to let their wonderful and knowledgeable volunteers take the brunt of their seemingly shortcomings in the timely resolution of AE software problems.

 

While the volunteers do screen the postings for LS and pass them forward, as they deem appropriate, I wonder about the communication from LS back to the volunteers. How well informed does LS keep its volunteers informed as to the actions they are under taking to resolve these issues. It appears to me that LS is not keeping its front line force, their volunteers, as well informed as they should be.

 

Again I appreciate TrDo comments and certainly my hat is off to all the volunteers who support LS in the outstanding manner and devotion that they do.

 

ColTom2

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Wow!

 

Just got back from holiday and found this little gem :angry:

 

I think Spike and TrDo have hit the nail on the head here. The problem as I gauge it is that, because Lavasoft staff are not active in the free forums (as they even confess the won't be) as much as the free users would like, it looks as though they don't care or bother with the problems.

 

This is not true.

 

As has been pointed out, it is impractical for LS to offer the kind of support they offer the paid users to the free users. I, guess, however, the debate is should they offer more support in the way of these forums? Well, in the end that is soley their decision. I can see pros and cons to doing so: genuinely satisified customers who might buy or recommend the paid versions against the cost of offering the support (as in employee's time spent investigating/replying) with no gauranteed financial reward.

 

As has been said, there are subforums in here which the average users cannot see where we can interact with LS staff more on a one-to-one basis. That said, again, I still believe there is plenty of room for improvement on this front - however, we (VMs and VSAs) have seen a good improvement with the creations of a few new forums for us to contact the support staff.

 

I also see that in the up and coming months this channel might improve further. The current MyLavasoft project has good scope to involve users and staff more - escpecially with beta testers and active participants.

 

While the volunteers do screen the postings for LS and pass them forward, as they deem appropriate, I wonder about the communication from LS back to the volunteers.

 

This is a good point CoolTom2, but I think LS are getting better at this. Like I said just before, I don't think it's ideal but it is better.

Casey

Edited by casey_boy

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@ ColTom2 and Casey,

 

While the volunteers do screen the postings for LS and pass them forward, as they deem appropriate, I wonder about the communication from LS back to the volunteers.

Some room for improvement, but light-years ahead of even two years ago :wub:

 

The number of LS staff that I see logged into the forum, from all different departments (most of whom I recognise), is very encouraging.

 

Whether or not they actually post is not the major issue for me (as previously stated, we do communicate regularly in the VM/VSA forums sections) - it is the fact that they are regularly here checking the latest issues, which is the best improvement for me compared to the situation some three years ago.

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